The Great Debate: Will Lula be able to separate himself from Jaques Wagner?

Commentator José Eduardo Cardozo and journalist and former senator Ana Amélia Lemos discussed, this Thursday (18), in O Grande Debate (from Monday to Friday, at 11pm), the accusations against senator Jaques Wagner (PT-BA) in Operation Compliance Zero, launched by the PF (Federal Police).

According to CNN Brasil anchor Gustavo Uribe, President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva (PT) called Jaques Wagner and asked the parliamentarian to defend himself against the accusations and not leave questions unanswered.

Wagner, subject of a search and seizure warrant in the 9th phase of Operation Compliance Zero, launched by the Federal Police, signaled to interlocutors his willingness to give a statement to the PF and clarify his relationship with Augusto Lima.

The senator is suspected of having benefited from resources from Banco Master. In an interview with Band News, Wagner denied the accusations.

Before the operation, the parliamentarian met with André Mendonça, rapporteur of the Master case at the STF (Supreme Federal Court). The expectation is that he will return to Brasília and meet with Lula to evaluate his continued leadership of the government in the Senate.

Debate over Wagner's continued leadership
For Ana Amélia Lemos, the situation represents a serious problem for the government.

"The most correct act would be to ask to leave office, so as not to contaminate the entire government and, particularly, the president, with whom he is a great friend", he stated.

She recalled a historic episode in which Itamar Franco removed his head of the Civil House due to accusations of irregularities, and, having proven his innocence, the removed man came back stronger.

"President Lula should recommend the departure of Senator Jaques Wagner from the government's leadership position in the Federal Senate, and this will free the government from explanations", said Ana Amélia.

The journalist also highlighted that the scandal involves figures from different political spectrums.

"Left and right, at this moment, are becoming equal in relation to the scandals that are occurring in relation to Banco Master", he observed, also citing the involvement of other powers, including the Executive and the Judiciary.

Ana Amélia described Daniel Vorcaro as someone who "operating like a mafia boss, he just didn't kill his opponents, but bought interested parties at a price of gold", whether to manipulate legislation in the bank's interest or for other purposes.

Cardozo defends the presumption of innocence and caution
José Eduardo Cardozo assessed that the Federal Police is carrying out "absolutely autonomous, very serious" work, which would represent a favorable point for the government.

He compared the situation with episodes of the previous government, in which, according to him, there were attempts to interfere in the direction of the corporation. "This is not happening and never happened during the Lula government," said Cardozo.

The commentator defended Wagner's presumption of innocence and was against pre-judgment.

"You can't pre-judge, you can't murder reputations", he said.

Cardozo recalled that, in a previous investigation involving the senator, watches found in his residence were reported as valuable, but turned out to be pieces from a fair with no significant value, and Wagner emerged "absolutely untouched" from that investigation.

For him, if Wagner needs to step away from leadership, this should be handled carefully between him and Lula, possibly through a temporary leave of absence to defend himself, without resigning from his position.

Comparison with the Ciro Nogueira case
Ana Amélia assessed that the situations of Jaques Wagner and Ciro Nogueira are equally negative for their respective political sides. She detailed that both parliamentarians would have worked in Congress for the benefit of Daniel Vorcaro, especially in relation to the increase in the limit of the Credit Guarantee Fund, which would go from 250 thousand reais to one million reais.

"It would be a big deal and Brazilian society would be the one paying the bill", he said.

Regarding the amounts found with Wagner - 55 thousand dollars and 30 thousand euros in his hotel room in Brasília -, Ana Amélia questioned the explanation that they were unused international travel allowances, arguing that they should have been returned to the public coffers.

Cardozo disagreed with this interpretation, arguing that travel allowances are compensatory in nature and do not require refunds if they are not fully spent.

As for the comparison between the two cases, Cardozo considered that Ciro Nogueira's situation presents, to date, more ingredients, citing alleged monthly payments, hotel expenses and deposits in companies owned by the parliamentarian's family.

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Source: CNN